Margaret Young, Founder, Age Knowble: "The power is in the people, you and me... join the movement for a UN Convention on the Rights of Older Persons!"

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Welcome.

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This is Ilana Landsberg-Lewis, your host for the Wisdom at Work podcast.

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Elder Women, older Women and Grandmothers on the Move.

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What follows is a special and exciting 10-part series.

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Have you ever thought about how human rights plays an essential and meaningful role in our older age?

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Well, you're in the right place.

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You're listening to Age with Rights and Dignity 10 interviews in which we will hear from older and younger advocates from different corners of the world.

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These committed champions will share with us why they care about the rights of older persons and what they are doing to help bring a new United Nations Convention on the Rights of Older Persons into being, for you and for me, no matter how old we are.

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Now Join the movement and raise your voice.

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Go to the Age Noble Human Rights Day 2024 blog to find out more that is A-G-E-K-N-O-W-B-L-Ecom and sign the global petition for the UN Convention on the Rights of Older Persons.

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I'm also excited to introduce you to two wonderful guest interviewers, younger women who are committed to these issues and will be joining me in this series to interview some of our esteemed guests Faith Young and Kira Goenis.

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Thank you for joining us, enjoy this special initiative, and my thanks to Margaret Young, the founder of Age Noble for bringing this opportunity to us to hear from these important guests who promote the human rights and the dignity of older persons the world over.

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Hi, welcome back.

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It's Ilana from Wisdom at Work podcast and I'm bringing to all of you Margaret Young, the founder of Age Noble, the person who conceptualized and brought into being the special 10-part series on the UN Convention for the Rights of Older Persons.

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Margaret, welcome to the podcast.

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Thank you, lana.

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It's great to be here, great to have you, margaret.

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You and I have been working on this for a while together, but I thought it would be important for people to hear from you, to understand what is the nature of this campaign.

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Why has it come into being?

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Why don't we start with just getting to know you a bit, margaret, and your?

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background and what brought you to the human rights of older people?

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Yeah, that's great.

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So you know, actually, when I think back about it, why am I so fascinated and want to be involved about human rights of older persons?

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I kind of reflected it, figured it has to do with growing up.

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I was fascinated about history, ancient things and why do things come to the way that they are.

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When I was growing up I was very curious about the different Chinese dynasty, how people evolved, the Chinese people evolved over time and then, being born in Hong Kong, the British culture was all around me and while Queen Elizabeth II was a prominent figure, I somehow learned about Queen Elizabeth I and I was really fascinated with English Renaissance and all that happened during that era, to the point that I even went on holidays and then I went to London.

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I went to bookstores to look for books about her.

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So this shift about being curious about history and ancient times really shifted when I made a trip one point to Asia where I went to both Hong Kong and Singapore, and I saw a very striking contrast in the lives of older people.

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And what I mean by that is that, you know, in Hong Kong I walked in urban downtown bustling, hong Kong, and I saw older people sitting on the sidewalk, you know, begging for money.

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Then, when I was in Singapore, I saw also an older person at the sidewalk but he was actually doing work.

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He was chiseling beautiful artwork into the pavement.

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So that really kind of struck a chord with me because it points to what different lives could be in terms of older age and I was wondering how does it come to be and where does it go from there?

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So that really planted a seed for me to want to work with older people and to work with older people at some point in my life.

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I didn't know when that was going to be.

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So along the way during my banking career, I actually volunteered in different roles and organizations that has to do with older people and I did my gerontology background along the way.

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Then, finally, I figured it was time and in 2019, I founded Age Noble, my organization, where I took my skills that I developed during my corporate career so that I can serve organizations that are already supporting older people to increase the impact.

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In 2019, it was also the year when I first was exposed to the world of human rights for older person.

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I was part of the Pasadena Network delegation to the Open-Ended Working Group on Aging, and when I got to the UN, it was really an eye-opener.

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I saw the proceedings.

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Yes, it was very formal, but there was also a lot of undertones in terms of how member states discuss various topics.

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I saw how passionate NGOs were about older people and, more importantly, the human rights component.

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There was actually an advocate from Peru who made her intervention and she was crying and that made the whole room.

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I can feel the silence of everybody watching and listening to her sector all based on policy and programs.

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But human rights is something that is going to be really the game changer.

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So when I left the UN, I started to research about it.

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What's going on right now?

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Who's working on the rights of older persons?

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And then I found out about this group called the Global Alliance for the Rights of Older People.

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I spoke with the Pasadena Network, we looked into their work and I said, hey, we need to be part of this.

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First, I started as a student group in 2020, and I became the chair in 2023 to 2024.

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And right now, I'm the immediate past chair.

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So I think taking away from all this is that, on the ground, every day we're not exposed to human rights of older persons, but once we learn the power of it, there's really an opportunity for a great change, transformative change, not just for the older people today and their lives, it's for all generations to come, and it's both.

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To me, the biggest thing is that not only is it rights and dignity in terms of the series of what we're calling, but also the whole self-determination piece, be it during the good times or bad times, that human rights will support us to do that.

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To continue on individually.

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Yeah, that makes so much sense and it's really beautiful how you came to it.

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And also, I think the reality is that we're all aging and so one thing that is universal, absolutely universal we say that human rights are universal and indivisible but the other thing that's absolutely guaranteed is that all of us are aging and, if we're fortunate enough, we'll live to a long and old age, and so this really isn't just a concern for older persons but for all of us.

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Right, it's partly about our humanity and the human family and human rights for all.

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And I guess that brings us to you know, why have a campaign, why have this initiative, this kind of awareness raising initiative?

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Yeah, and I think you said it so aptly when you say that you know it's awareness effort that we want to make through this particular project and this work of aging with rights and dignity.

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So there's a few reasons.

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The first and foremost, as you said, is awareness.

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So, while we have an ongoing movement already, with some very avid advocates and we're bringing on new people, it's not widespread enough in terms of grassroots momentum In the communities, in our everyday lives.

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When we see the inequities that older people face and we see it in the newspaper in different ways and forms, we say, hey, we've got to make our laws better, we've got to improve our public policy, we need to have more programs, but we don't really think of it as, hey, this is a human rights violation that's happening here.

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So with this project, what we want to do is we bring that light that it is a human rights violation and, as you said, being part of the human family, we automatically have human rights.

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So why is it that the older person and the older population do not have their rights recognized?

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And in order to have the rights recognized, we need to have a new international legal instrument that explicitly say what the standards are.

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So, for example, right now there's nothing in human rights standards about long-term care, palliative care, lifelong learning.

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You know all those things that are very important to us in older age.

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Social security is another big one.

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So that's why we ask our interviewees to really share, from their lens, from their country, either what they experienced personally or what they've witnessed in their country either what they experienced personally or what they witnessed in their country.

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What is one key human rights gap so that, as listeners and I was really fascinated when I listened to them you know what they see and saw.

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To give that human rights gap like color and texture, so that we can understand what is happening, and also to overlay that with intersectionality of gender and different physical and cognitive abilities, to really show up that older persons and the older population is not homogeneous.

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That's another key.

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So that's a whole kind of building awareness and creating that broader understanding of what's going on and what's needed.

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So the second is really to showcase and celebrate the advocacy work that's underway globally.

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So for this series, we invited advocates from eight different countries, of different culture, economic statuses, to really show us that, while the texture and colors would be different in terms of whether the older people are enjoying their human rights or not enjoying their human rights, but the themes are all the same and, once again, this is why we need an international integrated instrument.

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And also within the series, we'll hear from two younger women in terms of why they're interested in the work of human rights of older person.

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They want to be part of this project.

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The third and final reason is really to invite more people to join the movement.

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Our hope is that once someone has listened to our advocates, they will want to reach out and find out more, and that they would be so impassioned with what was said and shared that they would sign a global petition to support a UN convention for the rights of older persons.

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Well, and that brings us to the question of timing and what's happening right now and the full panoply of activities and groups and committees talking about the need for whether there is a need for a, a new UN Convention on the Rights of Older Persons.

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Why now?

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Why take this on at this moment?

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That's a great question.

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I think there's broader awareness that there is a working group at the United Nations called the Open Networking Group on Aging, tackling the issues of human rights of older persons.

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But I think what's helpful to understand a little bit in the context of when older people and population aging come into the world global stage.

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They started in 1982 at the World Assembly in Vienna.

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So at that point in time it was very much a policy-based, a program-based.

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So member states got together and said, okay, we need to have some guidance in terms of aging policy and programs.

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So then there was this instrument called the International Plan of Action on Aging.

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That was developed to really guide the member states when they go back what should be considered in terms of developments of programs and policy.

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So that was in 1982.

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There was ad hoc implementation because it's not binding Binding, meaning that it's not legally required to implement it once agreed upon.

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So to give more momentum behind it, the member states came back in 1991 and said let's develop some guiding principles of how we should support and treat older people right.

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So then there was 18 principles that was developed.

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The document was called the United Nations Principles for Older Person and basically it covered five key areas independence, participation, care, self-fulfillment and dignity.

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When we read it, we can start thinking, hey, maybe these are the principles for human rights of older persons.

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Then time continued on.

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In 2002, the member states came back to the International Plan of Action on Aging to see how it's developing.

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So at that point this was in Madrid.

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So this particular plan then became the Madrid International Plan on Aging and basically at that point they feel that implementation is still a bit lagging for different reasons.

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So therefore they said, okay, let's have a monitoring and reporting cycle and let's make sure that we have the lens of social economic development and human rights in it.

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So this is the first time that human rights is brought to the forefront in terms of the older person.

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Fast forward to 2010,.

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That's when the General Assembly adopted a resolution to establish the Open Ended Working Group on Aging, and this group's mandate is really to look at and consider existing instruments, international instruments on human rights of older persons and then identify whether or not there are any gaps and, if there are gaps, what to do about them, including whether or not to have more instruments on human rights of older person.

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So this is quite a pivotal development because up until then, there wasn't really a specific focus purely on human rights of older person.

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So hooray that we have that.

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And then, secondly, within this working group, not only is it the UN member states, the UN agency civil society meaning older persons States, a UN agency civil society meaning older persons, ngos, everybody else get a chance to participate, as well as National Human Rights Institution, which is a not common practice.

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I think the group, when they started, was really excited and then the work continued.

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We do hear the comment what happened over 14 years and what's the result of 14 years of work?

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Because the open-ended working group went from 2011 to 2024.

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And along the way, the Office of the High Commissioner of Human Rights at the UN published several reports about what's the frameworks that exist today and basically they found that existing frameworks are fragmented and that they are insufficient in protecting the human rights of older person and that a new international human rights framework or instrument is needed in order to promote and protect the rights of older people.

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So, just as the establishment of the working group was very pivotal in 2011, the recent session the 14th session in May 2024, was equally, if not more, pivotal Because, based on the work of the 14 years.

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The member states actually reached a decision and the decision acknowledged that there are possible gaps on the human rights of older person and that they also recommended a non-exclusive list of 11 options of what to do about it.

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And the first option that's listed if I remember right, the first option is actually an international, legally binding human rights instrument, which is what we call UN Convention.

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So this is really pivotal because it's actually acknowledgement that there are issues and that one of the possible solutions would be the UN Convention.

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So this particular decision was then presented to the President of the General Assembly and there was a meeting about it in August 2024 at the General Assembly.

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So after the deliberation on the decision, there were like three key points that was arrived at.

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So first is that the open-ended working group has completed its mandate.

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So that's great, we celebrated completed its mandate.

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So second is that all relevant UN agencies are urged to look at this decision that's put forth by the working group and, of course, the UN agency that has the most relevant mandate is the Human Rights Council.

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So while it doesn't explicitly say Human Rights Council, that's a relevant UN agency.

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So that's another yay for us, because that's where we want the work to continue.

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And the third thing was that the General Assembly will hold a high-level meeting in 2025 to look at the decision more closely and its recommendation and kind of figure out the next steps.

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It might not be as explicit in terms of some of the support we wanted relative to the convention, but it was a very strong way forward.

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So for me personally, after August there is an opportunity to celebrate.

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We need to kind of move forward in a confident and yet not complacent way.

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We are confident because, through the efforts of civil society, national human rights institutions, as well as supporting member states, we actually brought the UN Convention as an option on the table.

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And we cannot be complacent because now it's when the hard work really needs to really continue and push even harder for more majority member state support so that we can land on the convention and in order to have success at the intergovernmental negotiations at the UN, we really need to have strong national level support, and to get that we really need more people, more actors every day, like you and me, around us to understand what's happening and then to advocate for older people's human rights and then to tell the local governments and the national governments to start protecting the human rights of older person.

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That is not adequate as it is today, and it's time for UN Convention.

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So this is why we decided to put this project together in time for this year's Human Rights Day in December, so that the rights of older people would be center stage, along with all the different human rights of different population groups, so that we bring that equality piece to the older population and to bring that light to the table.

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So that's why the timing is now for this project.

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So you've talked about how we have to double down now and work even harder and keep pushing, because now's the moment where really the voices have to double down now and work even harder and keep pushing, because now's the moment where really the voices have to come from the national level to the governments, to the intergovernmental discussions, to the Human Rights Council.

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So, for this particular initiative, what are we asking people to do?

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What would be helpful?

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When people are listening to this, how can they get engaged?

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Yeah, I think that's a great question I mentioned earlier.

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You know, reach out to others who are already in the movement to find out more, sign the petition.

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But also, you know, as an individual, if we see a systemic human rights issue, we have the right to contact our governments, our human rights ombudsman, people who are part of our human rights commission in our country and say, hey, this is not right, this is a human rights violation, because the power is really in the people, in you and me.

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So an example of this is earlier this year in Switzerland, a group of older women who are climate activists actually won a court case at the European Human Rights Court against the Swiss government.

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The Swiss government was not following some of the initiatives or the standards around carbon emissions and helping to combat climate change and for the older population, as we know, climate change and the heat wave, the weather, provide greater risk for older people, especially isolated older people.

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So you know, the case was really underpinned by the fact that older people's lives were at risk.

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So they actually won the case and it's the power in the everyday person that made that happen.

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So, secondly, if you are a nonprofit, you are doing strong advocacy every day in terms of policies with your local governments or national federal governments.

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What we need to do is incorporate the human rights lens in there to strengthen the arguments for what we want, and also to work with others as a coalition to strengthen our voice.

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Thirdly, if you're a service provider or a program provider for older people, really incorporate a human rights-based approach in terms of the development and design of your services or your programs, and what I mean by that is to really engage older persons for their input when developing what it is that's needed and to make sure that there is not a discrimination based on age or age-biased beliefs.

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And then, finally, we can all be a catalyst of change and help spread the word.

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So in this project, we have a small but mighty team in you and Lana, Kira and Faith and myself, and what we did was really, really just.

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Our job was to help spread the word, and we created a stage for eight advocates to share their work and for some of them, it's actually the life work in promoting the human rights of all the person and toward the UN Convention For us all, spreading the words as easy as forwarding on the global petition or one or all those podcast series that resonated with you.

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The power is really in you and me.

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That's a beautiful note to end on, margaret.

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Thank you so so much, and thank you for the opportunity to be involved in this.

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It's been absolutely wonderful and I encourage everyone to listen to the conversations.

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The advocates are truly inspiring.

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There are people who are just like us, who have the passion for human rights and the human rights for other people in particular.

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So thank you so much for the opportunity, margaret, and thank you for dreaming this up and dreaming it into being.

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Yeah, thank you, alana.

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It's really been a fantastic, incredible journey working on the project together with our eight fantastic advocates in Catherine, fidushi, frances, jane, maura, nina, teresa and Vijay, and a tireless championship.

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This is really how it works creating a collective and creating momentum.

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So thank you.

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Thank you, alana.